Indeed. Also probing rigs are penalized, tracking disruptors are not penalized vs tracking enhancers, despite the description (in fact all penalty vs bonus stacking claims that the penalties should be themselves penalized vs a bonus).

It doubles the web range. How is that NOT poverpowered?

Again, what other ships is doing with the ships a Vindicator have pinned down is not the Vindicator's fault. The Vindicator is made to hit smaller stuffs pretty well. And that bonus can't just go away just because other ships hits those ships better. Then it's the other ships problem.

[So now it's all about blap dreads and not about how each pirate ships is balanced to each others?

It's the combination of web range and neut amount that makes the Bhaalgorn even more dangerous than the Vindicator is.

The Vindicator only do it's DPS potential inside 10 km while the Bhaalgorn have it's potential to DPS, shut down most ships speed and cap wise from around 30 km.

Did you forget to read this?: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3967709#post3967709

frig cap regen time beats heavy neut cycle time quite handily.

90% web effect isn't any more overpowered than 100% longer web range

Again, this is not about what dreads can do to webbed ships. It's about what a Vindicator can do compared to the other pirate battleships.

They are balanced to each others. And if CCP nerf the Vindicator, then the rest of the pirate ships needs to be nerfed as well (maybe except for the Nightmare) to be balanced to each others again.

90% web effect isn't any more overpowered than 100% longer web range

You are able to move with a 90% web. However, you are not able to do that with a 100% web. So the 100% webber is more powerfull than the 90% webber.

Again, i haven't been sleeping for 30 hours. I even edited out the post as i saw my error before you posted that anyways.

90% web effect isn't any more overpowered than 100% longer web range

90% web effect isn't any more overpowered than 100% longer web range

Dreads are not pirate ships.

Just saying.

shield tanked fast and ganky would be nice like a hyped up shield thorax ... and leave the web strength with the blood raiders instead
or blood raiders could be web range instead across the board instead of only bhaal having it ... it would match with scorch and neut range bonus 15km sweet spot of neuts, webs and lasers..

Ok, im going to spell this out very clearly and slowly for you.

No number of 60% webs can match 2 or more 90% webs. Not 6 60% webs. Not 10 60% webs. Not a million 60% webs. 6 megathrons will web a ship down less than 1 vindicator. will. 600 megathrons will web a ship down less than 1 vindicator will. 60000000000 megathrons will web a ship down less than 1 vindicator will.

That was not the point acording to you. The point was that a dread could hit the ships because they was being webbed down so much that X-L guns would hit then no matter what and not how much 3x Vindicators would be able to web a ship down compared to 6x Megathrons.

So what I'm getting from reading all of this is everyone wants risk free PVP.

You all think you should be able to whip around in your frigates and HAC's with impunity.

A ship shows up that actually threatens you and NOPE TOO STRONK NRF PLS!!!

*Insert over generalized, sarcastic, pointless counter*


We live 3 jumps from Amamake. ~7 from Avenod. Also ~7 from Hagilur.

Amamake= PL
Avenod = Shadow
Hag= Dead Terrorists who have gotten really comfortable in bed with Snuff lately


Every one of those entities can blap us into the ground if we engage them head on. So yes, sometimes the answer is to not fight.

Want a PL tower? Just re-inforce it 3-4 times. They'll stop forming for it. A) they can't form for them all the time because of their deployments, B) they'll get bored.

Want to Fight DT, or DT reinforce one of your towers? Yup, they're gonna bring friends.... SO.... bring your own friends, or let them win the battle of taking a tower, then take it back later.

Want to fight Shadow? Well... that one's a bit trickier. Still possible, but altogether more complicated.



There are without a doubt times when you simply do not fight. You do not fight the enemy when he is ready, his forces are strong, and his energy is right for engagement. You wait until he slumps, you wait until his forces slack off, and their energy fades. You know what he is doing, before he does it, and you force him to back pedal.


So far, we've been able to, for the most part, survive our significantly larger neighbors by picking and choosing our fights very carefully(Minus a ~20b BLops hiccup a few months back, but ya know). Choosing when to NOT engage is just as important as choosing TO engage.

There isn't mentioned anywhere that modules gets stacking penalized after how many ships you use in the EVEWiki here: http://eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Stacking_Penalty

It only says how more modules on one ship gets stacking penalized for using more than one module.

Ofc, you are free to correct me here aswell. But i doubt it as this is the wiki page you linked me earlier.

As the web slows you down 60%, it means that no matter how many webs you have, you can't get the ship to do exactly 0 m/s.

Yes, with enough webs, you can get a ship to do 0.0001 m/s, but never to a stand still at complete 0.

So yes, like i said over, it's fully possible to take a 250 m/s ship down to 1 m/s with just 6x Megathrons that have one 60% web each.

Ship 1 with 60% web: 250 m/s - 60% = 100 m/s.
Ship 2 with 60% web: 100 m/s - 60% = 40 m/s.
Ship 3 with 60% web: 40 m/s - 60% = 16 m/s.
Ship 4 with 60% web: 16 m/s - 60% = 6.4 m/s.
Ship 5 with 60% web: 6.4 m/s - 60% = 2.56 m/s.
Ship 6 with 60% web: 2.56 m/s - 60% = 1.024 m/s.

So there you have it.

so we know how the ship works.

I know how webs works. But the more important question is, do you know how the Vindicator works?

As OP as web range bonuses are, they don't go as well with 6km or 13km neuts like they do with 26km neuts.

1. The 90% web bonus is a statistic that not only experienced pilots can use (some frigs/cruisers have it too!)
2. It's only on ships that you pay that little extra isk for
3. Not all people will use it for dreads, and the ones that do, if this gets nerfed, will just use rapiers/lokis in the future and take more of them.

1. You clealy aren't playing EVE if you actually believes that the Daredevil is powerfull just because of the web. Infact, it's not really that good against any frigs if it's good frig pilots who are flying those ships against a Daredevil.

because someone will have a fleet with enough webs fitted that makes ANY ships to be almost stationary anyways.

Within 15k, for applying DPS, nope, Vindi is pretty much the top tier. Kinda how it was designed to be. Such a bad thing that something is doing the job it's supposed to.

4 - People must be allowed to do stupid things under exceptional circumstances.

If we take the dread out of this discussion, can you then tell me exactly why the web is overpowered?

To me it sounds like you are butthurt because you can't get under someones tracking.

Without the Dreads being able to lock on Cruisers and frig sized ships, there is basicly no ships in EVE that will have ANY issues to hit any ships that is 60% webbed by 3 normal ships anyways. Carriers use neuts and drones witch will hit you no matter what. So what is the issue here then?

And what speed does the Dramiel have and how many webs does the Megathron have?

But it's quite stunning that you don't get the point that Vindicator's role is to slow down fast ships so everyone can hit them quite good. Serpentis ships are the ONLY ships in EVE who can do that.

Can i ask what's so wrong with that?

Question is, will a 82.5% web effect be any different than 90% web effect in actual PVP?

Because you are paying tons of isk to get that benefit. Vindicator is a DPS and webbing ship, so yes, the guns will stay.

Not only that, but fit 1 web on the Vindicator and 4 on the Megathron. I want to see the stats there.

EDIT: The fact that you have to use a Vindicator to be able to hit smaller stuffs that good, says enough. A normal battleship with 1-2 webs isn't supposed to hit frigs at all, for the most part. SO you are comparing oranges to potatoes.

Without the Dreads being able to lock on Cruisers and frig sized ships, there is basicly no ships in EVE that will have ANY issues to hit any ships that is 60% webbed by 3 normal ships anyways. Carriers use neuts and drones witch will hit you no matter what. So what is the issue here then?

I call that balance as there is ONLY 1 battleship in the whole EVE that is capable of webbing that much. Again, 1 single battleship that you have to pay lots of isk for to get that benefit.

As much as the Falcon's ECM strenght is to powerfull as the Falcon is the only ECM ship in the game who effectively can jam you from 70 km?

Should we nerf the jam strenghts on the Falcon to as it's to powerfull?

Everyday I face these webs in fights and always beat them

like i said, you have no idea what the Vindicator is

And secondly, if you fight like we do with our Vindicators, your Vindicator with your setup is going to die horribly while ours is going to survive. It's not about how much a Vindicator can tank once carriers is jumped in and have started to rep us as we will have enough carriers to keep ANY Vindicators alive anyways. The point for us is to be able to tank a massive fleet before we have dropped the cyno and jumped in our carriers and then have the time to lock up the Vindicators and get the Capital reps running on our Vindicators.

According to the newest version of PYFA, your setup have 192k EHP while mine have 228k EHP. So yes, that's alot of difference.

That's before any fleet bonuses are applied. Both setups also have a full LG Slave set fitted.

EDIT: Just to add this to. We fits our Vindicators to have a tank that is as much possible imune to neuts. We are often going up alot of other pirate ships like Bhaalgorns and stuffs like that and we are also going up against lots of carriers, and they do have neuts to.

So if some carriers neuts you Vindicator so you can't use your active tank (armor hardeners + the Reactive Armor ) effectively, you end up by having the amusingly low 103k EHP (according to PYFA), LOL. While my setup will have 169k EHP if i get neuted so much that i can't run my explosive armor hardener and Reactive Armor hardener.

So the point here is that even if you are completely capped out, you can still survive with carriers as backup. You can't do that with your setup.

Why do you think we are so effective with our Vindicator fleet?

Yes, it's because our setups are extremely good for what we are doing.

Good luck trying to use the cap booster effectively when 4-5 carriers and some Bhaalgorns are nuking your cap.
It's better to bail a fight with all Vindicators intact rather than bailing the fights with several Vindicator losses.

It's pretty clear that you haven't been fighting with Vindicators against lots of carriers and Bhaalgorns i see.

Yes, you might get the first or a second cycle in if your lucky, but that's it then.

Read my edited reply over again.

What does it help to cycle it's hardeners when the Vindicator can't shoot?

A Curse is likely to use a scram as it can just sneaks in right on top of it's targets and will fight at close range.

Answer me this.

Before this topic was made, there didn't exist a single topic about OMGOMGOMG 90% webs on the Vindicator is to strong. Why did this so suddenly get an issue after this topic was made?

No 90% webs means every cruiser fitting 100mn afterburner will be running amok, and rebegin the reign of the heavy missle 100mn tengu, then people will complain about that...

Then why are you complaining about the web bonus if you are out of its range? And even blaster range to boot.

To web down a 100mn tengu requires a daredevil and fleet, MWD daredevil blowing up his Sig making him most likely hero tackle waiting for the fleet to engage.